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Frostys Virpio
The Mjolnir Bloc The Bloc
1231
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Posted - 2014.09.02 16:55:00 -
[1] - Quote
Just make a mod that reduce flight time but grant better application OR more missile speed. Hell make it similar to a TC if you want with different scripts or 2 entirely different mod so a trade off has to be made at the fitting screen.
Seeker optimiser (insert fitting cost here) Missile explosion radius +10% Missile explosion velocity +10% Missile flight time -15%
Rocket engine overfeeding system <---- this name is sooooo bad (insert fitting cost here) Missile flight speed +10% Missile flight time -15% |

Frostys Virpio
The Mjolnir Bloc The Bloc
1231
|
Posted - 2014.09.02 18:53:00 -
[2] - Quote
scorchlikeshiswhiskey wrote:Frostys Virpio wrote: Just make a mod that reduce flight time but grant better application OR more missile speed. Hell make it similar to a TC if you want with different scripts or 2 entirely different mod so a trade off has to be made at the fitting screen.
Seeker optimiser (insert fitting cost here) Missile explosion radius +10% Missile explosion velocity +10% Missile flight time -15%
Rocket engine overfeeding system <---- this name is sooooo bad (insert fitting cost here) Missile flight speed +10% Missile flight time -15%
Working with what you have, I would like to see the top module idea as a low slot that competes with the BCS. You could fit Rigors and stack those in your lows and have a Torp Raven that can apply well to cruisers (or maybe frigs), but without the damage and ROF bonus from the BCS, or you could fit a HML Drake with 2/2 and have a versatile platform. As for the second idea, I would love to see that as a scripted mid-slot like a TC so you could either extend your flight time (rockets/HAMs/Torps), or increase your flight speed (Lights/HMLs/Cruise/Torps). These are the kinds of modules we're asking for, they come with fitting tradeoffs just like turret mods have. For example, look at an Incursion fit where they stack the lows with Gyro's/Heatsinks and then put multiple TC's in the mids and then get ReTC's from Scimi's/Oni's. A missile pilot doesn't even have the option to go super-duper overboard like that, you stack Rigors, put on 4 BCS's and that's it, that's all you can do. Besides the webs/TP's that help everyone.
You could go like TC/TE and make a low slot passive module and a med active module too. The idea really is just to ahve the options beside rigs for application. Then if CCP see the need, they could integrate an e-war module for countering missile application but I always wonder if people would use a counter to a weapon system you only face on one out of 4 ships or so... |

Frostys Virpio
The Mjolnir Bloc The Bloc
1231
|
Posted - 2014.09.02 19:22:00 -
[3] - Quote
scorchlikeshiswhiskey wrote: I agree, and your post pointed out an error in mine that I corrected with an edit. As to why have a flight speed bonus, look at the main reason that you almost never see a missile boat in an Incursion fleet: Delayed damage in a fleet with light-speed artillery. These types of modules wouldn't insta-fix anything, but they would add a new layer of versatility to missile boats as a trade off for raw damage and/or tank, which I think most people can agree is reasonable. The actual numbers may not be spot on, I for one am too lazy to crunch them, but the principle is sound.
If missile ship trade damage potential for missile speed, they would still not get taken in incursion fleet because their dps would be to low to justify them being there. People would still need as many BCU to bring similar damage level to what gets in fleet. They would use leftover low/mid slots for application like gunnery ship do. |

Frostys Virpio
The Mjolnir Bloc The Bloc
1231
|
Posted - 2014.09.02 20:13:00 -
[4] - Quote
scorchlikeshiswhiskey wrote:Frostys Virpio wrote:scorchlikeshiswhiskey wrote: I agree, and your post pointed out an error in mine that I corrected with an edit. As to why have a flight speed bonus, look at the main reason that you almost never see a missile boat in an Incursion fleet: Delayed damage in a fleet with light-speed artillery. These types of modules wouldn't insta-fix anything, but they would add a new layer of versatility to missile boats as a trade off for raw damage and/or tank, which I think most people can agree is reasonable. The actual numbers may not be spot on, I for one am too lazy to crunch them, but the principle is sound.
If missile ship trade damage potential for missile speed, they would still not get taken in incursion fleet because their dps would be to low to justify them being there. People would still need as many BCU to bring similar damage level to what gets in fleet. They would use leftover low/mid slots for application like gunnery ship do. Depends on the number of low slots and the fleet (ISN, no, but one of the entry-level fleets, maybe), if you were able to fit 3 BCS and 2speed mods the lower, but more consistent, DPS might be desirable. It might not. Just an example of something that missiles aren't preferred for that might open up a bit. That might be a bad example, probably is in fact, but it was just something off the top of my head. Overall, this makes missile fits a lot less rigid and opens the door for a much larger variety of fits based on the situation in the same way that turret weapons are tweakable to the situation.
With only speed mods, it means you still have application problems to anything not painted AND webbed while gunnery ships only need webs to be applied so you still fall short. Missile ships already gets taken in non optimal fleet so it change nothing for those and they still would not be taken by optimized fleet because vindi would still do a better job at close range and mach/nightmare would still do a better job at range.
Making missile better so they compete in incursion would break other things. Not making them better in some way mean they won't be taken by the best fleet and people will keep crying about it not being balanced.
Adding application options on the fitting of missile ships has value in it's own right even if it will not change the current incursion meta of using the best tool for the job. The idea is to make sure the module constitute a trade-off like the gunnery version do. I personally think a penalty on some stats for another benefit can be balanced without the need to add a dedicated missile e-war since you pay the slot price just like turret boat do and pay the penalty on the mod while they pay the e-war headache. |

Frostys Virpio
The Mjolnir Bloc The Bloc
1231
|
Posted - 2014.09.02 22:51:00 -
[5] - Quote
Harvey James wrote:scorchlikeshiswhiskey wrote:At a glance I would say that the numbers are arbitrary, however your point is valid and possibly the scripted module would allow you to choose an unscripted bonus of 5% to each, or scripting to receive 12% to one. In my opinion, the important thing is that people can agree on the base concept of a passive low trading speed for flight time, and an active, possibly scripted, mid that allows you to affect your application by trading tank. If players can agree on this then we can proceed to crunch numbers and present a consolidated front to CCP and push for the change as a majority. Doing so would also mean that when the changes came out they would be received much better than if CCP just ran out another RLML system fiasco.
As for Defenders, there is already a module for them so why create an entirely new one? I would much rather see the existing module/ammo fixed to take advantage of utility highs. because people don't sacrifice high slot launchers for defender missiles ... then ofc there are ship without spare highs or launchers .. as a highslot defenders are not viable thus the reason they are unused now .. but as a midslot people would use them
Most people also don't fit TD but you think people would fit a module countering only about 1/4 of the ship you could face? |

Frostys Virpio
The Mjolnir Bloc The Bloc
1231
|
Posted - 2014.09.02 22:52:00 -
[6] - Quote
Gizznitt Malikite wrote:
I have a feeling your numbers are out of line, especially since reducing missile dps is much more difficult than reducing turret dps!
It's harder to generate raw speed than angular velocity?
I'm not saying the number are balanced because they were basically chosen just to illustrate the idea at that point. |

Frostys Virpio
The Mjolnir Bloc The Bloc
1231
|
Posted - 2014.09.03 02:50:00 -
[7] - Quote
elitatwo wrote:Gizznitt Malikite wrote:
Cause it makes total sense to compare Large guns to medium missiles...
Would you feel better if I used Sleipnir x2 @10km and Ishtar x50 @80km for that example?
Hey guys, if the enemy outnumber me 5+ to 1 , I won't be able to blap them all even with no racking weapon system... |

Frostys Virpio
The Mjolnir Bloc The Bloc
1231
|
Posted - 2014.09.03 15:06:00 -
[8] - Quote
afkalt wrote:I mostly agree - but in order to have a single module missile DPS needs to be brought into line with their size class. So for example a 10% hike in heavy missile DPS wouldn't kill much - but a 10% hike to lights? Ouch time.
The missile with already good application would not benefit as much from such module just like extra tracking is only useful to a certain point. |
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